Carol Fishman Cohen: Welcome to 3 2 1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss strategies, advice, and success stories about returning to work after a career break. I'm Carol Fishman Cohen, the CEO and Co- founder of iRelaunch and your host. Today, we put together a special compilation episode in which we share some of the best tips and advice from previous podcast guests and new year.

Today, we welcome Jennifer Andrews, an equity and inclusion expert who relaunched her career in 2015 as part of Credit Suisse's Real Returns program in their second cohort. Jennifer attended the iRelaunch conference in 2014, and we will talk about how that experience influenced her relaunch. After eight and a half years at Credit Suisse, Jennifer recently took on a new role, leading the equity and inclusion efforts globally at Guardian Life.

Today, we'll be speaking with Jennifer about her job search and experience relaunching through a returnship, as well as her career progression since her relaunch. Jennifer, welcome to 3 2 1 iRelaunch.

Jennifer Andrews: Thanks so much, Carol. I really appreciate you inviting me to be part of this podcast, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, I am too, because we have known each other for a long time and through the entire arc of your conference experience and beginning your relaunching to where you are today. So, um, so it's very exciting and I thank you for being our guest today. I have this one final question that we ask all of our podcast guests, and it is what is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today, but any other comments that you have as a result of this conversation?

Jennifer Andrews: Well, one, which we talked about, is absolutely use your network. That is your greatest asset. Don't be afraid to tell everybody you that you're trying to do this. I think that's so, so important. And then the other thing that I did when, you know, my self confidence was like a little bit low and I'm like, okay, so can I really do this?

I actually went back to people I used to work with in the past. And I asked them to kind of remind me, kind of, what do they like or appreciate about working with me? It was extremely empowering and enlightening. I went back to like my old manager and old colleague and what they told me. Well, I kind of forgot about a lot of it and it really just helped me think, say, okay, so, you know, I had, I was adding some value and there was some important things I did of some important attributes that they admired and respected. And I have to remember that as I'm kind of trying to reinvent myself, get back out there. So, that those two things I'd say were really, really important for me.

Carol Fishman Cohen: I love that you did that. Uh, you know, we talk about this idea of people from the past having this frozen in time view of you. And I also found that to be incredibly empowering in my own relaunch journey, because I remember I kind of felt like, wow, people are more enthusiastic about me returning to work than I am.

Jennifer Andrews: Oh, I understand that.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yeah, it was very, very, very helpful. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for having this conversation today.

Jennifer Andrews: Thank you. And thank you for all you did in helping to get me to where I am today.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today, we welcome Elizabeth Andrew. Elizabeth is a top producing technology sales executive, startup advisor, and TEDx speaker who has established herself as a leader. motivator and role model with her inspiring story of career reentry by breaking barriers into the San Francisco technology space at nearly 50 years old after a 17 year career break with no technology experience.

Elizabeth has been a three time VP of sales working for companies including HelloSign, Dropbox, Puma and Natomi. She is currently the co founder and CEO at Sales Compete. In today's episode, we're going to speak with Elizabeth about her relaunch, time in the corporate world, and experience founding her company.

In her early career, before becoming a stay at home mom, Elizabeth was VP and Director with Wells Fargo Asset Management, where she opened up the New England region as a mutual fund wholesaler and grew territory assets from 0 to 70 million. Her success story has been featured as an iRelaunch, relauncher of the month.

Elizabeth, welcome to iRelaunch.

Elizabeth Andrew: Hi Carol, it's great to be here. Always fun to see you.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yes, I feel like we go back a long way and I remember, following your story from very early on. So the idea that we are sitting here now having this conversation is very significant. So what is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something we've already talked about today.

Elizabeth Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Being a student of your profession, follow people on LinkedIn, follow me on LinkedIn. I, you know, I, I try to post a lot of tips, around my entry journey, but be a student of your profession. And I would say one of the biggest things, Carol, that I am, you know, having worked for an AI company for a year, and it's interesting because I left in December of 2022, that world has changed because, ChatGPT came out right after that, right? It, I don't, I don't even recognize it anymore and it's been a year. But my biggest piece of advice is learn how to use AI. And you know, I, you know, one of the things that we would always talk about is that AI is not necessarily going to replace people. You know, I don't think you can replace the vulnerable, authentic human voice, right?

But people who know how to use AI might replace people. So learn, find ways to learn how to utilize AI and it can help in a job search too,

Carol Fishman Cohen: yeah, for sure. We even have a special, section of our, iRelaunch Roadmap that, Nikki Steingold, a senior person on our team developed that takes people step through, by step using chat GPT with prompts and, it's very helpful in the job search, but also the way you're talking about it, Elizabeth, it's really a theme through our conversation today is that, you are a lifelong learner, you are a curious person, you're fearless about learning something new, and those qualities are essential, for relaunchers, and you can, you don't have to be born that way, you can train yourself and learn to be that way, and it really, it can be the foundation for success in so many different things, whether it's entrepreneurial or a more traditional corporate relaunch.

Elizabeth Andrew: Unquestionably. Yep.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. It's great having the conversation.

Elizabeth Andrew: Yeah. I love seeing you as always, and hopefully we can meet in person again when one of us is on the other coast.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Absolutely.

Today, we welcome Ofer Sharone, Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, whose research focuses on career transitions. unemployment, and aspirations. His new book, The Stigma Trap, College Educated, Experienced, and Long Term Unemployed, shows how the stigma of unemployment renders all workers, including those who are highly experienced and hold advanced degrees from elite universities, precarious and vulnerable to being trapped in long term unemployment.

Recognized as a leading expert on unemployment, Ofer has been invited to the White House and the U. S. Department of Labor to participate in policy discussions on addressing unemployment. Ofer, welcome to 3 2 1 iRelaunch.

Ofer Sharone: Thank you so much, Carol. I'm really happy to be here.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, we really appreciate your time. What is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we have already talked about today?

Ofer Sharone: My biggest piece of advice is something I have already talked about, but I want to re emphasize it, and that's the importance of finding peer support. As a sociologist, I want to share our theory of how people get their sense of self, sense of identity, in sociology comes from a theory of looking glass self, what the looking glass self means, that society is like a mirror and it's mirroring back to us who we are, at least we perceive how others think of us, then shapes our sense of self. So when you are, someone who's on a career break, been out of work for a while, you're getting a lot of very distorted images reflected back to you. Images of like, is there something, like, how motivated are you? Are you still, serious, are you really a career person, etc.,

right? These, and it's very hard to not internalize it. Sociology says we will. So the key thing then is to surround yourself with other kinds of mirrors, others, other people who you have to be very consciously selecting to surround yourself with, who see the value, see the dedication, this, It's the desire to contribute and all the skills and qualifications and valuable aspects of you and can mirror that back to you.

That is so necessary for maintaining our sense of self, right? It's a myth that we can just buck up and do it ourselves, right? This like, idea that we all can just look inside and find some endless resilience. It's not true, right? We need others to have that resilience and we can support others in, in their journey.

So in any, the support of mirroring back to each other, the valuable things that we can bring and contribute to the world, and not the stigmatized images that we're getting from everywhere else is absolutely key, and hopefully it eventually expands beyond into the larger society, right? This, and, and, and leads to a broader cultural change of, of understanding the craziness of stigmatizing each other for taking career breaks.

What a prison we create in our society, where we have to either lock steps, stay in a career for life or else risk being stigmatized and excluded. I mean that is really creating a rigid, you know, prison sentence that does not account for the millions of things that can come up in life and all the other important things besides continuous work.

So, I think we need to take really seriously a cultural pushback to this expectation of lockstep, always staying in work, full time, that is just blind to the realities. And so I, I hope that it can start with a small support group, but then, it can, you know, expand and scale and lead to a bigger cultural change that we need.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Hmm, that's a very powerful place to leave off.

Today, we welcome Felicia Williams. Prior to taking a career break, Felicia spent over 20 years as a director in accounting, finance, and audit at a major U. S. railroad. In 2022, she relaunched as part of the Return to Work program at Vanguard, where she provides investment and advisory services to Vanguard clients.

Making a major career pivot. She recently accepted a promotion as a high net worth advisor. And we're going to talk with Felicia about her post break job search, her experience relaunching through a career reentry program and her post relaunch career progression. Felicia, welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch.

Felicia Williams: Thanks for having me, Carol. I'm so happy to be here today.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, we're so excited to have this conversation with you. What is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today?

Felicia Williams: Well, I think I may have sounded like a broken record when I talked about the various breakpoints that I mentioned during this relaunching process, but that's what worked for me. So my best piece of advice would be what I would tell my cadre members, ask for what you need. When you relaunch, it is a major pivot in your life. It affects you, your family, even your company that you're going to work for. And it's a transition. So your transition may look a little different than mine or your coworker next to you.

But remember to ask for what you need. And I'll just give you a personal example of what that looks like for me. So for me, one of the things that I did to ask for what I need besides taking those intentional breaks that I mentioned is that I, about six months ago, because I'm one that naturally likes to help people, I found myself doing all my work and then helping everybody, and it was becoming to be a drain on me.

And so one of the things that I asked for what I needed was to ask for a modified schedule. I'm still working full time. My schedule is still actually the same number of hours, but as you can imagine, being a mother of four, trying to fit in doctor's appointments and other things in between your work day when most of those things like schools and doctor's offices are only open during working hours, during the week and not on the weekends.

I asked if I could flex my schedule on one of the weekdays to move my lunch hour and get off a few hours earlier and then work an hour later on two other days so that it balances out. Like I said, I'm working the same number of hours but you wouldn't imagine the benefit, I mean the, the benefits that that has given me and my family.

I'm able to schedule my children's appointments with their, their teachers or parent teacher conferences or doctor's appointments on that afternoon each week that I know that I'm going to get off early and can accommodate those things so that I'm not torn in multiple directions. And then I'm still, it actually benefits my clients too, because on those other two days I work a little bit later for my clients that are in different time zones and may need to meet after work.

So that's an example of how when I say ask for what you need, ask for what you need to be successful.

Carol Fishman Cohen: I love that advice. I hope everyone's listening closely to that and really takes that to heart. It's so important. Felicia, thank you so much for joining us today.

Felicia Williams: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Carol, and thanks to iRelaunch. This is a great idea.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today, we welcome Heather Bannon. In 2006, Heather left her role as a Senior Programmer Systems Analyst at Discover Financial Services, beginning a five year child care career break. She ultimately relaunched her career by returning to Discover, where she is currently the Senior Director of Information Technology.

Heather is a big fan of iRelaunch, which we so appreciate, and she posted about this on LinkedIn, including her enthusiasm for our Normalizing Career Breaks mission, which I have to say is now our trademark, and we're all very excited about that. And Heather said she was motivated to share her story, if it could be helpful to earlier stage.

Well, we saw that, and Heather, the answer is a resounding yes, and we're thrilled to welcome you to 3 2 1 iRelaunch.

Heather Bannon: Thanks for having me, Carol. I'm excited to be here.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Thanks, Heather. What is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today?

Heather Bannon: My best piece of advice is to believe in yourself, and if you find that you're struggling to believe in yourself, reach out to those who love you the most. They can sometimes hold a mirror up for you and show you aspects of yourself that you're missing because you're not feeling confident. All folks who are in a career break, ready to relaunch, we've all learned from every experience in our lives. So believe in yourself. You've got a lot to contribute because there's, there's a lot of interesting problems to be solved that need a diversity of viewpoints.

Carol Fishman Cohen: That's great advice. And I love hearing it from you. You know, when our, when our listeners hear it from you, someone who has taken a career break and come back and has not only thrived, but it's just on this incredible career trajectory, it's very powerful to hear you say that. Heather, thank you so much for joining us.

Heather Bannon: Well, thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed our conversation.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today, we welcome Rowena Zahn, who took a 15 year childcare career break, during which time she completed a dual degree master's program. Having left a pharmaceutical sales career before her career break, Rowena's relaunch ultimately led to her current role as an account manager with a global company that offers solutions for the biopharmaceutical industry.

Industry and laboratories, from drug discovery and development to production platforms. We are speaking with Rowena about her strategy of using full degree programs to relaunch her career. We'll get into the day to day of what this was like and how she used her university experience beyond the classroom.

Rowena, welcome to iRelaunch.

Rowena Zahn: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, we're really excited to speak with you. What is the best piece of advice that you have for our relauncher audience? Even if it's something that we've already talked about today.

Rowena Zahn: Sure. I would say there are a couple things that stand out, for anyone who's in a similar situation as I was in that wants to relaunch I would say, be kind to yourself because there are a lot of challenges, but also be a cheerleader for yourself.

There were, there were many times I think I felt like I probably held myself back because I felt like the only person in the room who had been in that situation. And there are other times that I know I had this strong fighting spirit that was like absolutely acknowledging I was the only person in the room who had this situation, but I felt, this is my chance to tell my story and I'm going to break the mold or any stereotypes they had about people taking career breaks. So I would say, believe in yourself, be kind to yourself. If you are in a similar situation where you are juggling things in your personal life, like caregiving and also looking to relaunch.

And the other message that I had is for, for others who have successfully relaunched and are maybe in roles of leadership roles where they're hiring. I feel like it also gives us an affinity to look within the network and, also hire, um, others who have relaunched, but also maybe those who have not been walked in exactly the same path.

But for those people who are hiring to keep an open mind, there may be a candidate that has a very different trajectory and be open to that. You know, now that you don't have to follow steps, you know, A, B, and C to get to that next role and to take a chance. And, you know, it may be the best hire that you've ever made. So that's kind of what comes to mind.

And I do hope that that helps make a difference.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, I love that, and that is one of, part of our mission at iRelaunch that we have a critical mass of relaunchers back in the workforce who then hire other relaunchers to work for them as they've been moving up. So I love that you touched on that. Rowena, thank you so much for joining us today.

Rowena Zahn: Thank you. It has been an absolute pleasure. I'm very honored to be here. Thank you.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today we welcome Ashley Miller. Ashley enjoyed a 19 year career working on the sidelines and front office in the NBA and WNBA. It was here where her passion for the importance of equity and all aspects of the workplace became a focal point of her career journey. After a two year career break where she honed her love for house renovations and flipping, she transitioned to the finance industry working in private wealth management for Goldman Sachs.

Her time at Goldman proved successful, managing client portfolios and investment strategies before becoming the chief of staff for diversity recruiting and leading the very program that brought her to Goldman. Currently, Ashley leads equity, inclusion, and belonging as well as social impact at Pizza Hut Global, allowing her to steer initiatives that champion inclusiveness and foster cultures of belonging around the world.

We are going to discuss Ashley's career path, including her career break, relaunch, And where she is now, and also focus on questions of changing identity during different life phases and imposter syndrome during relaunching. Ashley, welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch.

Ashley Miller: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, it's so exciting to have you here in this conversation at we've known each other for a long time, and we also appreciate your ongoing championship of relaunching and your enthusiasm for iRelaunch.

What is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today?

Ashley Miller: When you really think about this idea of, like, shedding maybe who you were, or just the ideas sometimes of who you were, or maybe even the things that are holding you back, right?

If the caterpillar doesn't go into the cocoon for a little bit, which might be my career break, you know, you're not going to come out with this like beautiful thing on the other side, whatever it is. And I think just understanding that, I think for people that are relaunching, being comfortable, being uncomfortable in some way, which is not easy for people, right?

Like understanding that, like, it's not going to maybe feel great all the time. Like, what am I getting myself into that imposter syndrome? But I think understanding that, like, if you could be, like, kind of a sponge in some ways and absorb and kind of, I don't know, like, take your time and enjoy a little bit of, like, this is a new foundation for me and you're building something different and being open in so many ways, ultimately is, I think, what I have found for people who have success, even seeing it with the program when I was at Goldman is like people who I felt like were open minded and didn't mind getting uncomfortable really, I think saw the most success.

And I think for them shedding that old part, that it's like, I have to do this. I have to be this, or I have to be at this level. I have to make this amount of money, whatever it is. It's like, be open in the beginning a little bit and talk about it. It's ok, and I think just you'll never know, like, kind of what that path or trajectory is going to be, if you can get a little uncomfortable for a while.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Great advice about being open. It's, that's when some of the best things can happen to you. For sure. Wow. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ashley Miller: Of course. Thank you so much for inviting me. I had definitely, you know how I feel about iRelaunch. It just means a lot to me. And honestly, where I am today, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for iRelaunch, so, thank you.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today, we welcome Elia O'Rourke, who is a native of Mexico with an accounting degree, who found her path in New York City, where she met her husband during an exchange program. Elia took an eight year career break to raise her three daughters, and during this time she also validated her degree through the World Education Services, and we're going to talk about that in a little bit.

In October 2021, Elia returned to work through Lockheed Martin's Chapter Next program, where she worked for a year and a half as an Associate Proposal Analyst, and from there she was recruited by BBVA into a role as a global cash management implementation lead. Elia, welcome to iRelaunch.

Elia O'Rourke: Hi, Carol. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, we really appreciate your support and advocacy to relaunchers everywhere, and also for sharing information about iRelaunch with all of them. Very much appreciated. What is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today?

Elia O'Rourke: Sure, so I'll say, just knowing to every freelancer that you are worth, you're worth, that don't feel oh, I have this gap and I just don't know if they're gonna offer me a job, just remember that you're worth whatever your experience is, and then just knowing that the best asset is yourself, and you're coming here to bring something to the table, and it's always a two way street. They're not doing you a favor, and then you're not doing them a favor.

It's a mutual relationship, and just keep learning, you know, try to, you know, and stay, stay informed about the current events. That's important as well.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yeah, no, this is such great, great advice. And, Just from the way that you're answering questions and talking about how you approach all of this, you can tell that you are a lifelong learner and you're a curious person and that is a theme that, that runs through when you're talking about your whole career relaunch journey.

So Elia, thank you so much for joining us.

Elia O'Rourke: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun and I hope some of you guys get motivated with this and feel free to reach out if anything. I'm always willing to help anybody who needs any resources.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Today, we welcome Evan J. Kopelson. Evan began his career as an in house business affairs attorney for Capitol Records, and then he spent 20 years in the entertainment industry and pursuing creative interests, including Songwriting. In fact, one of his songs, called Where Do We Go From Here, that he wrote for Vanessa Williams hit three Billboard charts and won a BMI Pop Award.

Then Evan took a career break. When Evan relaunched his career, he relaunched first as a volunteer, and ultimately he was hired as a trial attorney for the Eviction Defense Network, a nonprofit that supports individuals and families facing eviction. Evan is a beloved member of our iRelaunch Return to Work Forum private Facebook group, and we will talk about the role of the group in Evan's relaunch, and Evan's role in the group as a contributor, bringing his peers along with him on his relaunch journey, the highs and lows, the setbacks, the victories, and the ultimate successful relaunch. Evan, welcome to 321 iRelaunch.

Evan Kopelson: Thank you, Carol. It's a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for having me.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, we're really happy to be able to have this conversation, Evan. I wanted to ask you the question that we ask all of our podcast guests, and that is what is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something we've already talked about today?

Evan Kopelson: That's a great question. Um, I like to think about, faith, you know, for me, it's God for other people. It could be whatever it is. And I, you know, that's a bunch of weeds I don't want to jump into right now. But what I would say is if you believe in God, give your life to God fully. Because God is like an umbrella.

And a big set of hands that'll hold you up and shield you. And if you give everything over to God, like a child, you know, would give to our father in heaven and ask for the grace, the mercy, the forgiveness for everything that. You know, humans are flawed. What do we do? We do the best that we can, but like, nobody's perfect.

Right. So who could forgive us for the things that we wish we did and didn't do? I mean, a lot of that self loathing gets in the way of people being able to really be their best and present themselves. So I like to start and end with the umbrella of faith and then in that context, inside of that, then do all the work.

And so in that context, you know, put your faith in God, but you still have to do all the work is what I'm trying to say. And so plug into the things like iRelaunch and plug into the communities, if you have the budget to hire a coach, hire a coach, like someone who can help you set goals and achieve them.

And if you don't, then plug into these incredibly valuable communities like what Carol has built, because those will literally handhold you step by step into all these different things you have to do to get your profile ready and your resume and get ready for interviews and get ready to present yourself and have the positive mindset and the community to kind of bolster you and help encourage each other.

So all of that is what I would leave with anybody who's listening and say, do all of that. And you'll be on the right path.

Carol Fishman Cohen: That is excellent advice, and very personal too. And we know everyone's different and it's so helpful and really helping with our awareness to know all the different ways that people are motivated and that keep them going when they're in a difficult situation, which job searching can be.

So thank you for sharing that, Evan, we appreciate it. And thanks for joining us.

Evan Kopelson: Absolutely, Carol. Thank you so much for having me. And, again, I look forward to seeing you.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Thanks for listening to 3,2,1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss strategies, advice, and success stories about returning to work after a career break.

I'm Carol Fishman Cohen, the CEO and co founder of iRelaunch, and your host. For more information on iRelaunch conferences and events, to sign up for our job board and access our return to work tools and resources, go to iRelaunch.com. And if you like this podcast, be sure to rate it on Apple Podcasts. And be sure to share this podcast with a friend on Facebook, Instagram, and other social media.

Thanks for joining us.